Ira Glass interviewed a gay Mormon (Benny) on This American Life about his first crush and the lengths he went to to confront the person he was crushing on. The episode (#450) is titled So Crazy it Just Might Work. You can listen to it here.
gay Mormon conversation heart
Several themes are confronted in the interview. One is acknowledging to yourself that you aren’t attracted to women but to men. This part of the episode was like a walk down memory lane and helped me recall the time of life when I was uncertain about what was going on in the attraction/orientation department. Fortunately it was a long process for me. I realized early on that my peers talked about girls the way I felt about guys. It took some time before I was able to say “I’m gay” out loud, a little more time before I could write it to another person, even more time before I could say it to another person. And it’s taken decades to get to the point where it no longer matters to me what people think. Even then, I have occasional relapses. The first person I officially came out to (after my parents) was my friend “Jewel” in 9th grade. She was the only non-Mormon friend I had at the time. I wrote it to her in a note during geography class, and our teacher quickly confiscated the note after she read it. To this day I’m not sure whether the teacher read the note or threw it away.
Another theme touched on in the interview is dealing with your first crush and figuring out what all of that means. I don’t think I developed any real crushes until after my teenage years. At least not the kind of crush Benny referred to–the type of crush that completely consumes you. And even then, that crush paled in comparison to how I felt/feel about Dan. Early on in our relationship I used every free moment to keep in contact with Dan whether via text messages, email, or sneaking away from work or school for a break. Like Benny, I was (and still am) willing to pack up and head out at the drop of the hat if it meant I could see Dan. It’s funny what love does to you.
A theme that neither Benny nor Ira Glass discuss in great detail is what it’s like to be gay, in the closet, Mormon, and in love. I have a great deal of compassion for openly gay (believing) Mormons. It’s a difficult place to be in and no one really tells you how to process the feelings associated with crushes. Often times it feels like nothing really adds up: gay feelings are supposed to be carnal and devilish and not at all the same feelings you hear straight people sing about on the radio. God would never let you feel for another man the way straight people feel for each other. The feelings must be lust and must be fabricated by the devil himself; he’s trying to catch you in one of his snares. Other times it feels like no one really understands: the real gays seem to be on guard and maybe even threatened by your presence and/or religiosity, other gay Mormons seems to be defensive about why they aren’t open with family and friends, and the regular (straight) Mormons can’t always wrap their minds around the gay.
And that’s part of the story that’s super interesting. Benny lived with a straight, believing Mormon roommate named Parker who seemed completely supportive and understanding of Benny as he figured things out. Parker was willing to go pretty great (literal) distances with Benny to help him figure out the gay crush thing. That’s not something you hear about much. You’ll understand a little better when you learn what Parker was willing to go for his gay Mormon friend Benny on This American Life–something so crazy it just might work.
An author at The Student Review, “an independent paper revival,” claims the BYU Honor Code restricts religious freedom. He makes a compelling case, quoting Elder Dallin H. Oaks and Joseph Smith, the LDS Church’s founder. I think I might agree but I would describe the Honor Code more as means BYU uses to control behavior rather than restrict freedom. Interesting points were brought up recently in discussions on Facebook. BYU students sign a contract to follow the Honor Code while pursuing their education at BYU, and the Honor Code (per The Student Review) says you have to be in “good standing” to graduate from the university. Education at BYU is, in some sense, subsidized by LDS church tithes and donations; is it fair that someone enters as a Mormon, uses money donors think is going to the Mormon cause, and graduates as something other than a Mormon? I’m not really sure, but I think the author of the article brings up valid points worth discussing and considering.
The author concludes with a quote from Joseph Smith:
“…the same principle which would trample upon the rights of the Latter-day Saints would trample upon the rights of the Roman Catholics, or of any other denomination who may be unpopular and too weak to defend themselves”
Regardless of whether I agree, I guess I’ll stand by BYU’s (a private institution) right to enforce rules it sees necessary so I can maintain my freedom to worship how, where, or what I may–or not. Is it too much to ask that BYU/the Church, in their efforts to squelch religious freedom at BYU, not over step their bounds to restrict my freedoms?
In a not-so-recent discussion with a friend I was asked about my past (a true-believing Mormon or TBM) and how I got to where I am now (partnered to someone of the same sex). That’s not an easy question to answer but I’ll do my best to answer this question. My assumption is many who read my blog have this same question. And before I answer this question I’d like to openly state that my purpose in explaining these things is not recruit any one to my way of thinking; it’s merely to explain for those who would like to understand. Hopefully it will also explain how other people also get from point A to point B in their own “spiritual journeys”.
To start, I’ll take you down memory lane. Around my 18th birthday is when my spiritual journey started. Growing up in Utah, the religion to which I was exposed was the Mormon church. Due to the passing of a family member, I began to take religion more seriously: Is there life after death? Will I be with my family in the after life? Am I worthy to live with them in the Celestial Kingdom? Those are the questions I asked, and I decided the answers to questions were an emphatic yes and subsequently served a full-time mission for the LDS Church. I was called to the Baltic Mission (Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania), served two years, and loved almost about everything about it (at the time). More on that later.
Me on an LDS mission in Estonia
In preparation to serve, I went through the temple in Logan Utah. I think this is when my first doubts about religion began. Sitting in the temple ceremony I asked, “What in the world have I gotten myself into?” I felt like I had hopped on the wrong bus and it was taking me somewhere I wasn’t sure I wanted to go. My main concern was the subordination of women to men and the realization that LDS women will probably never be equal in status to LDS men. If I marry a woman in an LDS temple one day, could I ask her to submit to me? And would I be okay with my role as a mediator between her and God — that her relationship with God would be defined not as a direct relationship with God but her relationship to me as I sort of shield her from God. Another concern was the fact that I couldn’t get up and leave without being stigmatized and without embarrassing my family or letting them down.
LDS temple in Logan, Utah
You see, social pressure is a huge part of Mormonism. I couldn’t acknowledge my true feelings about that experience for fear of being kicked out, both in the literal sense of being kicked out of the temple and in the metaphorical sense of being rejected by Mormons. Actually, I did acknowledge my thoughts to a few close friends shortly after going through the temple for the first time. They asked, “So, what was it like?” and I resisted expected responses like “I felt like I was home” or “I felt so close to heaven”. I said, “I had a testimony of the Church until now.” As another blogger explained, the LDS Church is really good at enforcing social expectations to keep everyone “in the bounds of ‘acceptable’ behavior”. He speculated that the LDS Church provides a place of community (but you have to give up individuality to fit in). So, to fit in, I didn’t talk about those feelings with any one else. I didn’t want to lose friends; good friends are hard to find.
Jaani kirik (St. John's church) in Tartu, Estonia
Castle in Russia as seen across the river from Narva, Estonia
My experience in the Church continued to be one of living up to social expectations. That’s just how it seems to works. As a missionary, I tried to live up to the expectation of being a challenging and testifying missionary. My very first day in the mission field I was challenged by someone from another faith. My testimony about my church was met by the testimony from someone else about her church; she spoke with as much conviction as me. The solution other missionaries seemed to use was to speak down on members of other religions: “He’s such a good person. Too bad he’s Lutheran; he won’t make it to heaven.” As a lay service member of my local congregation (post-mission), I continued to live up to social expectations despite not really feeling all the things I was supposed to be feeling about the Church.
LDS (Mormon) chapel in Tallin, Estonia where I served as a missionary for two years.
What was I supposed to be feeling? No one really seems to know. It’s not science. You’ll just know when you feel it. Boyd K. Packer claimed it’s just like trying to explain what salt tastes like:
Such an idea came into my mind and I said to the atheist, “Let me ask if you know what salt tastes like.”
“Of course I do,” was his reply.
“When did you taste salt last?”
“I just had dinner on the plane.”
“You just think you know what salt tastes like,” I said.
He insisted, “I know what salt tastes like as well as I know anything.”
“If I gave you a cup of salt and a cup of sugar and let you taste them both, could you tell the salt from the sugar?”
“Now you are getting juvenile,” was his reply. “Of course I could tell the difference. I know what salt tastes like. It is an everyday experience—I know it as well as I know anything.”
“Then,” I said, “assuming that I have never tasted salt, explain to me just what it tastes like.”
After some thought, he ventured, “Well-I-uh, it is not sweet and it is not sour.”
“You’ve told me what it isn’t, not what it is.”
My friend, spiritually speaking, I have tasted salt. I am no more able to convey to you in words how this knowledge has come than you are to tell me what salt tastes like.
The spirit of man is the candle of the Lord (Proverbs 20:27). I'm not really sure what that means.
And that’s the whole crux of Mormonism: it’s true because you just know it is even though you can’t really explain how or why. But as a Mormon you can’t stop there. You then have the responsibility to share what you know with others (even if you don’t really know). Packer continued:
Oh, if I could teach you this one principle. A testimony is to be found in the bearing of it! Somewhere in your quest for spiritual knowledge, there is that “leap of faith,” as the philosophers call it. It is the moment when you have gone to the edge of the light and stepped into the darkness to discover that the way is lighted ahead for just a footstep or two.
My service in the Church was exactly that: me telling others what I knew to be true before I ever felt or believed it was true. That is the part of the mission experience I didn’t like. As Viktor Frankl contended, it seemed my whole mission experience was “depict[ing]…God as a being who is primarily concerned with being believed in by the greatest possible number of believers, and along the lines of a specified creed at that” (Man’s Search for Ultimate Meaning, p. 17). Those experiences didn’t stop there, however. I continued my service in the Church for several years after returning home from missionary service. I continued to tell people I knew things I didn’t really believe hoping to have the promised experiences.
So what do I believe now?
Saying that one religion is true is like saying that one point in the evolutionary history of a species is “true.” religions are cultural institutions and as such are subject to eventual and gradual change as they adapt. Those members of the religion that hold counter-productive views will not spread those beliefs and those that have effective, pro-social views will pass on the traits of their religion. This is how a religion, like a species, evolves (B.F. Skinner, Beyond Freedom and Dignity, p 128).
American Express offers specials through Four Square pretty regularly called Small Business Saturday. All you have to do is have an American Express card and a smartphone with the Four Square app. Then you spend $10 and American Express credits your account $10. It’s pretty simple. Dan and I have found this is a great way to try out new local restaurants and explore our town. And sometimes it’s just a great way to spend a Saturday. Here’s what we did today for small business Saturday.
We started off with subs at the Italian Place. Each sub is $6.50 totaling $13.00 for two. We paid $3.00 with the American Express + Four Square deal. To all the Logan locals: you really need to stop by the Italian Place some time. Their subs are the best in town! Seriously though.
The Italian Place, Logan UT
Our next stop was Cafe Ibis just across the street. We both got 20 oz mochas; I got a stroopwafel and Dan got baklava. Total cost after the American Express deal, $0.22. Total cost for our date, $3.22.
While at Cafe Ibis we Instagrammed any and everything possible. Here are the pictures we took.
Stroopwafel from Dan's perspective
Stroopwafel from Ryan's perspective
Me Instagramming
Dan Instagramming
Baklava at Cafe Ibis
20 oz mochas at Cafe Ibis
And the best part of all was the warm welcome Carmen and Misha gave us when we returned home. Here they are playing with the reflection of Dan’s phone.
The second best part of the day was that Dan let me win a few games of Super Smash Brothers after we played with the cats. Super Smash Brothers = awesome. All-in-all, today was awesome thanks to American Express and Four Square for giving us an awesome day date for just $3.22 (plus the gas to get there).
The holiday season can be pretty stressful, especially when you’re the gay member of a religious family and especially when one of your siblings is getting married a few days before Christmas and the other a few days after. This is the position we’re in. My family is attempting to combine one stressful situation (having a gay son/brother) with three stressful events — Christmas and two weddings. Add to the stress the fact that me and all my siblings got married this year so our family is entirely new to planning the holidays around in-laws’ schedules.
From the perspective of a gay member of the family, I don’t look forward to peoples’ reactions when they learn, if they haven’t heard already, that I’m married to a man. I dread conversations like these:
I don’t have too much reason to suspect anyone in my family will follow her instructions, but bitter conversations over Facebook suggests the possibility I might be met with hostility of the passive-aggressive type. Fortunately, I have potential allies in the family as well (e.g., a cousin who “likes” Facebook posts about gay issues); I’m hopeful it won’t be too painful if I show up to my dad’s family’s Christmas party. And even more fortunate than that, I haven’t had to worry at all with my mom’s family. One aunt and her daughter — my cousin (and friend) — extended a warm invitation to Thanksgiving suspecting Dan and I might feel uncomfortable attending.
Perhaps the most stressful part of it all is the disregard Dan experiences. My dad doesn’t acknowledge his presence at family outings. He has also suggested that Dan should be introduced at Christmas and the weddings as “a family friend” or roommate. (I have a hard time believing there are people out there who don’t know I’m gay and don’t know Dan and I are partnered, but that’s always a possibility I guess). And I don’t blame my dad for being nervous about how people will respond; people can be mean and it’s scary to consider all the potential reactions people might have. I’m nervous about peoples’ reactions too, but I’ve had more opportunities to experience those reactions and awkward moments than has my dad.
Despite all the potential stress, frustration, and awkwardness this holiday season might bring, I’m looking forward to having my first Christmas with Dan. The holidays for these two gays are going to rock.
In this post I would like to describe, in a little more detail, my experiences as a same-sex or same-gender attracted (gay) Mormon through the story of Steven Wilson (as interviewed by Steven Densley Junion of the Foundation for Apologetic Information and Research). In short, I would like to tell the story of nearly every gay Mormon and their pursuit of happiness. In the interview (Why would a gay man with AIDS join the [LDS] Church), Wilson describes his experiences of meeting a returned missionary at a gay bar, eventually moving in with him, joining the Church, and how his association with members of the LDS faith helped him abandon “the homosexual lifestyle”.
Wilson’s story isn’t completely unfamiliar to me. I attended support groups (e.g., LDS Family Services, Evergreen) and firesides intended to fortify my relationship with the Church, its leaders, and members. At Evergreen support groups, I learned that if I want to stay in the Church I need to stay single and celibate and wait for the resurrection or marry or woman.
As I became more entangled in Evergreen and other support groups, I learned that it’s possible to pray away the gay. The solution to the gay problem is simple: keep every commandment and get plenty of (nonsexual) healthy touch from other men. Voila! You’re cured. Let me explain the concept of healthy touch (for those who aren’t familiar). The theory behind male homosexuality is gay men didn’t bond enough with their fathers and/or male peers and sexualized their need for male affection to make up for it. So, you need to bond with other men, even get in some “healthy touch” (e.g., hugs, cuddles, holding), to mitigate the sexual attractions. (Be warned: the next video clip has some vulgarity).
I was actually invited to a “holding party” once. Well, two holding parties (but the second wasn’t advertised as a holding party). I didn’t go to the first one because when others described their experiences, it freaked me out. I was informed that I would be held by an older member of the group (as a father might hold a young son in his arms) and I would talk to him about my experience: how does it feel, what am I thinking, what am I feelings, etc. The experiences of others included talking about how it aroused them and learning to “talk through it” rather than fantasize about it. The other holding party didn’t involve older men, so I went. It was an emotional roller coaster as I watched guys (some of whom were engaged to girls at the time) snuggle up with any and everyone present. The sexual tension was high. And what should I have expected? A bunch of gay Mormon guys who aren’t getting any visiting a place far away from home (what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas kind of a thing).
I learned there are a number of additional organizations to help facilitate change in orientation:
Although not all of these organizations are designed to cure same-sex attraction, many gay Mormons recommended these programs to me as helpful in resolving the underlying causes of “the gay”. The most interesting to me is Journey into Manhood (JiM). For those wanting to know exactly what happens at Journey into Manhood weekends, Ted Cox describes his experience with alarming detail. Here’s a thoughtful perspective on JiM by the Original Mohomie. And for the lazy reader, here’s a little clip about JiM:
It’s weird to watch that video clip because I know most of the guys interviewed.
At firesides, I learned that if I want to stay in the Church I need to hate everything that is or might possibly be gay and fight against it. A man at one particular fireside shared a story similar to Wilson’s experience: he lived “the homosexual lifestyle”, turned away from his life as a porn star and addict, and converted to the LDS faith. Like Wilson, he referred to “the gay lifestyle” as a lifestyle of drugs, sex, and rock ‘n’ roll. He encouraged everyone present to avoid the very appearance of evil: don’t date members of the same sex, don’t do drugs, don’t drink alcohol; in short, don’t be gay. At the time, I had already begun dating and learned enough to know that “the gay lifestyle” he spoke of was nothing more than “his lifestyle“. I didn’t think it was fair to pass judgement on an entire group’s lifestyle based on personal experiences.
But I was used to judgement being passed. In Logan, I organized social events which later took on the name “Logansides” — firesides for gay Mormons in Logan, Utah. The firesides were intended to be nothing more than a social gathering for members of the LDS faith who are gay/lesbian or know someone who is gay/lesbian. Advertising was complicated: People not of the LDS faith thought I was starting an ex-gay ministry and people of the LDS faith thought I was spreading the infamous “gay agenda”. And then there were the ultra conservative gay Mormons who were vocal about the fact that I organized firesides and dated men (and eventually married). I learned for myself that it’s next to impossible to unite liberal and conservative Mormons when it comes to this social issue.
In short, what turned me off to the Mormon solution to the gay problem is the unkindness and intolerance experienced at the hand of gay Mormons. Oh, and none of these Mormons solutions I discussed made sense to me. Ultimately, these “solutions” led to an increase of unhappiness and frustration. Thus, I began my own pursuit of happiness that steered me away from the traditional gay Mormon path and away from experiences like those of Steven Wilson.
You can’t tell me this isn’t something to be grateful for. Zion National Park is one of my favorite places on earth. And I get to spend it awesome people like Dan, his mom, and her husband. They’ve always been kind and welcoming and incredibly accepting.